Electrical / Wiring Wizards

[GhostZ]

First off....I suck at anything electronic.  Let me pull my motor, drop the tranny or do a heads/cam swap and I'm fine but try to wire something and I (apparently) suck.

Since my heads/cam swap last year which included a CSI to work along with the Cloyes I have had one battery short out and a constant drain that killed the battery after that.

I have the CSI wired like the following diagram minus the switch and LED:  http://ken.lowrance.com/Projects/CSIWaterPump/Default.htm

I originally was wired through the ignition fuse as per the diagram but that blew my ignition (pre-Delteq, haven't tried the ignition fuse since and probably won't).....apparently the draw was too much so I switched it to the A/C fuse (A/C is drained and not in use at the moment). 

Is it possible that since I don't have the water pump switch installed that could be causing the drain?  I really don't see how since the switch and LED are optional.  Could I possibly have a bad relay which isn't closing when the ignition is turned off and that is draining the battery?  Or, most likely of them all....would it be a bad ground?

I have to tear into the car in the morning to swap out a shot oil pan gasket and I'll recheck the grounds from the water pump and the relay and rewire everything since the current wiring looks extremely ghetto.  My question for those of you electircally gifted....which wiring setup would you prefer and why, the above or http://www.mindspring.com/~amattei/mezinst2.jpg

I appreciate the input.

[Operation Z]

I recently found an excellent electrical guy, you should give him a call.

Bob Wilson
801-255-0425

[BumpaD_Z28]

I like the 2nd diagram due to the warning LED's... it's nice to know what is going on with the water pump 

Like you said be sure to check your grounds and YES you may have a faulty relay (even the BRAND of rely made a differnce in some of the car alarm installs I used to do get a Bosch the P&B's seem to have more "problems") 

[SS67]

Either diagram should work.

I think either you have a faulty relay, or its hooked up incorrectly.  The pump is powered through its own 30 amp fuse.... the wire to the ignition is just supposed to activate the pump - it shouldn't pull enough power to blow the ignition fuse.

-Alex

[GhostZ]

Thanks for the input folks and for the number.

Didn't get to the car this weekend so I'll have to do a little at a time after work this week.  If I figure out what's wrong before tearing all of the wiring out and starting over, I'll post it up. 

[IROCZMonty]

Are you using the diodes that came with the kit?  a diode MAKES electricity flow in ONE direction.  For example in the first schematic, there is a diode between the relay and hot wire. Volts travel from NEGITIVE to POSITIVE That hot wire is linked to the switch and relay. if that diode isn't hooked up, then you'll have a voltage going straight to constant power or the (hot when ign is on wire) instead of to the switch and cause a CONSTANT draw  Cause if that is not hooked up, then the switch could be off but volts will still travel and cause a draw.   Now volts travel from NEGITIVE to POSITVE, so if your fuse blows, volts travel through the resistor stright to your LED it cant go through the diode, so it will illuminate the LED because that is hooked to another positive source, so obviously it will light up your LED.  Plus you have something called OHMS LAW.  in this circuit OHMS LAW reads I=E\R or current = volts\ resistance. there are 12 volts and 2k ohms of resistance 12\2k = 6mA if your diode is hooked up wrong, it will increase the amperage, cause a draw, and possibly short your fuse.  The switch also causes resistance in the circuit, that resistance will help prevent draws, and shorts in fuses because current is flowing through extra loades cutting the current load on the fuse and possibly preventing it to blow.  If the relay is hooked up wrong or backwards, when volts is applied, the relay could short, or toggle in a different direction other than the to where it's supposed to toggle to let current flow correctly.  So, if I were you, I would use the diodes, hook the diodes up correctly, use the switch, and make sure your relay is hooked up correctly.  The numbers on the schematic are referance numbers on the relay.  So double check your relay. Plus if you have your ground LED hooked up, then you could test your grounds by hooking the clip of a testlight to a positive source, and probing your grounds.  If the light doesn't light, then there is a bad GROUND connection.  Hope that helps a little bit.

[GhostZ]

I'm not using diodes now...I have it set up like the first link (under the CSI Electrical Hookup section than the schematic).  It's a simple wiring without a toggle switch so I didn't need the diode.

I have an engineer buddy at work who is coming over Friday to help me hook it up with the ground and operation diodes and the toggle switch. 

I wouldn't need a diode in the first diagram if I'm not running the toggle switch right?  Since the fuse I'm using out of the panel is only hot when the ignition is on right?  I can hear the relay click over which starts the WP when I turn the key to the on position.  I would think since the relay is closed when the key is off and not completing the circuit, wouldn't that prevent any draw?  Or am I wrong?

Either way I need to rewire the entire thing since it looks a little ghetto now and I'd like to clean it up a bit.  I'll recheck all grounds and connections to the relay before I take everything apart so I'll know what was wrong in the first place.  Where were you last year when I was doing this Monty!!!   Thanks for the input though....hopefully she'll be running right Friday without me having to worry about a dead battery.

I'll post up when she's done. 

[GhostZ]

One other question....I need to buy all of the wiring, diodes, resistors, another relay and the LED toggle switch tomorrow but what gauge wire should I buy?

I know I'll need a heavier wire for the ground from the pump, the hot side into the pump and the main power from the battery.  What gauge should I get for those and what would be a good size for the other wires that will lead to the two LED's and to the toggle switch?  I think we'll be wiring the toggle a little different....we'll be wiring the toggle switch inline with the fuse panel (going into 86 on the relay).  That way the ignition will have to be in the on position in order to turn the pump on....right?  If it's wired as it is in the diagram (second link) then I could turn the pump on even without the key in the car and I'm not diggin' that too much.

See any problem with wiring it that way Monty? 

Thanks again.

[IROCZMonty]

One other question....I need to buy all of the wiring, diodes, resistors, another relay and the LED toggle switch tomorrow but what gauge wire should I buy?

I know I'll need a heavier wire for the ground from the pump, the hot side into the pump and the main power from the battery.  What gauge should I get for those and what would be a good size for the other wires that will lead to the two LED's and to the toggle switch?  I think we'll be wiring the toggle a little different....we'll be wiring the toggle switch inline with the fuse panel (going into 86 on the relay).  That way the ignition will have to be in the on position in order to turn the pump on....right?  If it's wired as it is in the diagram (second link) then I could turn the pump on even without the key in the car and I'm not diggin' that too much.

See any problem with wiring it that way Monty? 

Thanks again.

you'll want like and 8-10 gauge wire for ground and battery power.  the other wires you can use like 22-24 guage and be good.  The relay basically transfers the loads of high current to low current so you can use small wires in your circuit, so you son't let the smoke out of the small wires and it's a lot safer with a relay.  You can get away with wiring the switch inline with the fuse, but check to see how much current is going to run to see if you may need a bigger fuse.  But it should work out just fine if you want to do it that way.  But, like I said before, I would use the diodes because with a relay, there are two circuits created instead of one, like I said how a realy transfers load, well it basically creates two circuits, one high current circuit and one low current circuit to run led's and such.  the diodes will help prevent draw back and help keep the circuits isolated from eachother.  One good trick I do is put a volt meter one the component thats doing the draw, pull a fuse one at a time until you see the volts drop.  once the volts drop, see what components that fuse protects and you can test the components, like copper to copper shorts and stuff.
Hope that helps a little more.

[GhostZ]

She's wired up....looks like the problem was most likely a bad ground with the original wiring.  Everything is wired and run into the car, I just have to drill some holes when I get to work on Monday for the switch and the two LED's.

I appreciate all of the input.

[IROCZMonty]

No problem man, glad it helped out.